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Water softener, filter etc?

April 24, 2008 By romans Leave a Comment

Hello, There are many unknowns floating about in my head concerning the purchase of a water softener. The idea is just to go get one and install it, but I guess I should be sure that it is what I need. So I was hoping you may be able to advise me according to the info I provide. I will attempt to describe some of the issues that we are having, hopefully it will be sufficient and allow you to recommend a water softener that will suit our needs. Still getting to know our home and repairing as we go, so we’ve made it to the water issue now!

I’ve checked the toilet tanks as was mentioned in a few posts that I read through. The toilet that was existing (unknown how long) has white/grey crust buildup on portions of the fill line, chain, float etc. and I was surprised to see a grey clay/mud collecting in the corner of the tank. The tank of the newer toilet (4 months) is still without crust and looks fairly good however there is small gravel like buildup in the bottom corner fairly large? The other issue is just the overall harshness of the water; drying out the skin actually causing a bit of tingling to the skin during baths. My wife is an avid water drinker and refuses to drink our water due to the ‘texture’, of course, being a man I haven’t noticed any difference as far as drinking goes. One other thing concerning the water the tub in the master bath is (for lack of better terms) being eaten away? of course this happened before we moved in so not sure about what has happened to the tub but it looks as if the water has possible eaten away some of the tubs outer layer. My assumption is that a water softener and perhaps some type of filter may be in order? Any advice will be appreciated.

There is one other thing I failed to mention there is an existing 12GPM tank (BIO 12) Biolite advance germicidal UV system that all the water is sent through directly after the holding tank. I have no knowledge really of this device I have read through the manual and know that I should be replacing this light sometime very soon. What is your take on this device?
Many thanks.

Answer: Sounds like you have a hardness issue. The white/grey crust that you mention is hardness (scale) and easily removed from your water with a water softener. We are not sure what the gravel-like material in your toilet tank is, but our lab would be able to identify it. This said, it does not seem like the material in your toilet tanks is really an issue anyway.

The other thing of concern is your comment that the tub has some corrosion issues. This may be due to low water pH, and if so can be visible as blue-green staining around the drain and water fixtures. If you are using municipal (city) supplied water, this is probably not the case, but this can be an issue when using on-site well water. It is also possible that this may be due to aggressive “scrubbing” by the previous owner in order to remove the staining caused by the hardness in the water.

Your UV light needs the lamp (bulb) to be replaced on an annual basis, as UV lamps do no “burn out” like a light bulb, but instead lose intensity over time. But the more important issue is whether it is functioning properly. When hardness values are above 7 GPG (~120 mg/l), a water softener should always be used. The reason for this is that hardness (magnesium and calcium oxides) will deposit on the quartz tube that is contained within the UV sterilization system. If enough scale builds up on the tube, it can prevent the UV light from penetrating into the water and providing proper sterilization. For this reason, in all applications where a UV is used and when water is above 7 GPG in hardness, we recommend that a water softener is installed upstream. If the tube has not been installed into the UV for an extended period of time, it may be fine. But if you have a high level of water hardness, and UV has been in service for awhile, then you may need to replace the tube as well as the lamp. Once you have a softener installed, the tube should not require replacement in the future.

Before we can recommend the correct system for your application, we would need to know your water hardness, pH, iron and manganese concentration, and TDS (total dissolved solids). If you have this information, just let us know. We will also need to know your water supply pipe diameter (after the pressure tank or water meter), and number of residents in the home. If you do not have a water analysis available, visit on Free Water Analysis page, to send us a sample – we’ll get right back to you with the results and our recommendation.

Filed Under: Ultraviolet Sterilization, Water softener Tagged With: hard water buildup, water filters, water softeners

Salt type Vs. Catalytic or others

April 6, 2008 By norvel Leave a Comment

We have had salt based systems for over 10 years. Since I am susceptible to High Blood pressure now, and the salt equipment just seems like a big mess and failing because of the mechanical aspects, I am considering alternatives. What is the consensus of the different types of systems available?

Answer:  You really should just replace you old water softener with a new one – technology has come a long way in the past few years, and water softeners are relatively easy to maintain and operate.  There is a lot of controversy regarding magnetic, catalytic and other “salt free” type water softening products.  As a rule we don’t comment on their effectiveness directly, and urge the consumer to draw their own conclusions, however, you will note that none of the other well-known major suppliers of water softener systems (like Culligan, Kinetico, Ecowater, etc.) offer these devices. You can visit one of our sites at http://ewateronline.net/services/some-common-questions.aspx to find out more regarding these products from government and independent sources.

Many “salt free” systems are also referred to as “Water Conditioners”.   These products do not soften water, as they generally contain only carbon, or sometimes mixed with a second media in a mixed-bed design.  These products can remove chlorine and other contaminants, but do not provide soft water.  Many times they claim NSF certification, but if you visit the NSF website – you will find that they are mostly certified only to NSF standard 42 – a specification that covers aesthetic effects.  Also, there is a difference between using NSF certified parts in your equipment, and having a NSF “system” certification.  All equipment components used in potable water system must be NSF certified – everything in any of our equipment is – we just don’t bother to mention it.  You will note that some products have a NSF certification followed by a number, like reverse osmosis system have an NSF 58 certification, ultraviolet sterilization have an NSF 55, and many water softener have a standard 44.  This means that the NSF have tested and certified that the product meets the manufacturer’s claims.  We are not aware of any salt free water softener systems that have obtained a standard 44 certification.

Regarding your health concerns, water softeners do not really add very much sodium to the water (only 8 mg/l sodium per grain of hardness contained in your water).  This means that when drinking a normal amount of softened water each day (within a typical hardness range), you will consume about the same amount of salt that is contained in a can of soda, or a slice of white bread.  You can’t normally taste it – usually only detectable by laboratory means.  However, if you or any of the residents of the home are under a doctor’s direction to restrict sodium completely from your diet, or if you have very high levels of hardness in your water (40 GPG and above) you may want to use potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride in your softener.  In this way, only potassium is added to your water – no sodium at all – potassium is a nutrient and a fertilizer.  We always recommend that you use sodium chloride or potassium chloride purified for use in water softeners (available at many supermarkets, plumbing supply and hardware stores).  Non-sodium potassium chloride is commonly available at supermarkets and “Big Box” stores, and sold under the brand names Morton KCL, K-Life, Softouch and Nature’s Own.  There is a nationwide chain called “Tractor Supply Company” that carries potassium chloride at very reasonable pricing. The down-side if that potassium chloride is still more expensive than sodium chloride.  Most people use sodium chloride.  Please let us know if this answers you questions!

Filed Under: Water softener

Water Softener Discharge Pumps

April 1, 2008 By Bob Leave a Comment

I recently installed a softener in my home that has a well & septic system. I am not able to discharge the system into the septic leaving the only option to discharge outside. I have a small (15 gallon) container that holds the discharge but (think) I need to find the means to pump the water once I reach 10, or so gallons in the container (i.e working automatically like a submersible sump pump). The pump will need to push the water vertically 7′ then horizontally 4′. All I have found are large sump pumps that I think are over kill. Is there a small pump for such an application?

Answer:  Actually, the least expensive pump that is available for this application is probably a sump pump.  Smaller pumps may cost less, but generally do not incorporate level/float activation.  They would run continuously, and in the long term cost more in electricity and maintenance.  A sump pump is your best bet.

Filed Under: Water softener

Low Water Pressure caused by water softener

April 1, 2008 By rancar Leave a Comment

We have a Kinetico softener system.  The house and system are going on 13 years old.  We recently started having water pressure problems, and last night it became worse, to the point that flushing a toilet caused no water at all in another part of the house.  We had the city look at their part to no avail.  We finally suspected the water softener and bypassed the system, which solved the pressure problem. However, our water is horribly hard, so we need to solve our problem.  But, we haven’t been able to find a reliable, honest company to service a Kinetico, including Kinetico (too many bad experiences with the local company that sells/services Kinetico).  What can we do to solve this?

Answer:  Your problem is due to bed failure within the water softener.  You mention that you are using city (municipal) provided water.  Within the US, municipal water contains chlorine or (in some cases) chloramines. These chemicals present in normal low concentrations do not significantly affect water softener performance, however, over long periods of time, it’s possible for chlorine to degrade the resin contained within your softener.  Also, if a water main breaks, or if there is potential for contamination of the water supply after a hurricane or extreme flooding, periodic high concentrations of chlorine might be added to the water.  Chlorine attack can transform the normally hardened sphere shaped resin particles into a soft “mushy” material.  This causes the resin bed to pack, and leads to the loss of water pressure in the home as you mention.

You will need to re-bed the softener with fresh resin.  If you are unable to locate a water treatment dealer to provide this service, you may be able to find a local plumber that has done this in the past.  If you are reasonably handy, and experienced at basic home plumbing, you may be able to do this yourself.   The easiest way is to use a wet/dry shop vacuum. The instructions below are only general in nature – not specific to the Kinetico softener.  If any step is unclear, for personal safety reasons, be sure to contact Kinetico directly for instructions on how to replace the resin.  The normal procedure for replacement of resin is:

1. Un-plug the unit (not required in a non-electric Kinetico unit).

2. Close both the inlet and outlet by-pass valves.

3. Relieve the water pressure in the unit – we are not familiar with the Kinetico design, and cannot explain how to do this – but you normally move each tank (and you have two in your softener) into backwash position.  This opens the drain line, and will relieve the pressure.  Again, you will have to do this for both tanks!

4. Carefully unscrew the valve mounted on the top shoulder of the tank (counter-clockwise to unscrew).

5. Siphon off the water that is visible above the top of the media.

6. If you have a wet/dry vacuum, suction the spent resin out of the tank.  You should find 3 to 4 inches of gravel on the bottom of each tank – you can separate it from the spent resin, and reuse it - or just purchase new gravel (normal size is 1/4″ x 1/8″).  Place new replacement resin back into the tank (do not overfill!  Only fill to the same level as noted prior to removing the spent resin)

7. Re-install the valve – hand tighten, and then a little more to seal – do not over-tighten!

8. Slowly open the inlet by-pass valve, and allow the tank to fill.  When the tank is full, open the outlet by-pass valve.

9. With the unit still in backwash position, you will note that rinse water is running to drain.  At first this water may appear slightly “cloudy” – allow the unit to backwash until the water runs clear (normally 1 to 2 minutes).

10. After water is running clear, repeat the process for the other tank.  When water is again running clear, advance softener  into the Service/Conditioned Water position.  The softener is now ready for normal operation.

By the way, if you don’t have a vacuum, you can siphon off the excess water, lay the tank onto its side, and scoop the resin out – but this is a more laborious process.

Filed Under: Water softener Tagged With: Add new tag